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Buffs and Debuffs debunked! The definitive explanation

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  • #16
    It would be safe to assume that all creatures have weapons/armor equipped. Considering buffs do not have an upward limit and debuffs do not have a downward limit(aside from 0) and yet bosses and normal enemies still manage to mitigate some damage(in the case of intense armor reduction) and apply some damage(in the case of hilarious attack reduction). In your testing you noted that defense bonuses were not factoring in armor equipped, so this lends way to an 'untouchable' amount of armor and attack for all enemies. This also explains why we still take some damage regardless of how many times we reduce their attack.

    Would be interesting to see some formulas from the Fincon side of things, though.

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    • #17
      I figured out a rough estimate for damage calculations

      working with numbers from -atk, +arm and crit

      i got an estimate that seems to remain 10% within the values I got (sometimes lower and sometimes higher)

      damage = 200*atk/(200+2*def)

      for buffs, make sure you leave the items out of all scaling factors

      for crits the estimate is

      ​damage = 200*atk/(200+def)​


      [and yes it might make more sense to use 100, but i wanted to avoid nested fractions]

      else you can take it as
      100*atk/(100+def) and if crit is involved, def is halved after calculating everything else
      Last edited by lithe333; 07-21-2014, 08:05 PM.
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      • lithe333
        lithe333 commented
        Editing a comment
        no to the "atk/def*2"
        yes to the calculations

        this is an estimate, I found it to be within 10% above and below the numbers I measured. I also found that the same hero attack/defense combination had varied numbers.

        considering linda is dealer and lak is tank, that seems about right.

        (lol.. lak has highest base defense.)

      • DR_ACE
        DR_ACE commented
        Editing a comment
        Why 200 or why 100 as a multiplier/additive?

      • lithe333
        lithe333 commented
        Editing a comment
        you can divide the 3 2's and still have the same formula.

        when i was working it out.. i also figured a crit estimation where def is halved
        so it is because of that ... that i used 200 and 2
        else 100*atk/(100+def) is the same thing.

        welcome to the world of maths/fractions

    • #18
      Wooh, boy I'm dumb. o_O


      Please spare my account from any inspection. I'm RIDICULOUSLY poor. I'm serious!

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      • #19
        Rocket King Toad armor debuff(-55%) difference. Used discharge rocket attack (deals 185%) to conduct the experiment.
        Used stone ice lvl 55 in hero city as a dummy
        no debuffs-1st try is 581,2nd try is 569
        1 defense debuff-1st try is 845 (difference in no debuffs 1st try is 264),2nd try is 836 (difference in no debuffs 2nd try is 267)
        2 defense debuffs-1st try is 989 (difference in 1 debuff 1st try is 144),2nd try, 2nd try is 997 (difference in 1 debuff 2nd try is 161)

        so, debuff 0 to 1 has bigger increase in damage than debuff 1 to 2

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        • #20
          Originally posted by SJLS View Post
          Rocket King Toad armor debuff(-55%) difference. Used discharge rocket attack (deals 185%) to conduct the experiment.
          Used stone ice lvl 55 in hero city as a dummy
          no debuffs-1st try is 581,2nd try is 569
          1 defense debuff-1st try is 845 (difference in no debuffs 1st try is 264),2nd try is 836 (difference in no debuffs 2nd try is 267)
          2 defense debuffs-1st try is 989 (difference in 1 debuff 1st try is 144),2nd try, 2nd try is 997 (difference in 1 debuff 2nd try is 161)

          so, debuff 0 to 1 has bigger increase in damage than debuff 1 to 2

          what are you talking about? :s
          what is 1 and 2 defense debuffs?
          do you mean stacking on debuffs or do you mean you are trying again in a different match?

          also from what I see
          everyone damage calculation has.. random factor.
          same heroes.. same states..
          if you are getting almost 1k dmg..
          it can vary at least 100.. possibly up to 400.

          = = =


          OH .. I think I understand :/
          Try 1 2
          no buffs 581 569
          -55% def 845 836
          -55% def x2 989 997
          basically.. yes,
          first debuff will always be better than second debuff..

          IF no buffs = 400 def
          -50% def = 200 def
          -50% -50% = 100 def

          since first time you cast.. you make them drop a lot more def.
          Last edited by lithe333; 01-01-2015, 01:24 PM.
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          • #21
            Originally posted by lithe333 View Post


            what are you talking about? :s
            what is 1 and 2 defense debuffs?
            do you mean stacking on debuffs or do you mean you are trying again in a different match?

            also from what I see
            everyone damage calculation has.. random factor.
            same heroes.. same states..
            if you are getting almost 1k dmg..
            it can vary at least 100.. possibly up to 400.

            = = =


            OH .. I think I understand :/
            Try 1 2
            no buffs 581 569
            -55% def 845 836
            -55% def x2 989 997
            basically.. yes,
            first debuff will always be better than second debuff..

            IF no buffs = 400 def
            -50% def = 200 def
            -50% -50% = 100 def

            since first time you cast.. you make them drop a lot more def.

            I am sorry =,= for the mitsakes, i was just trying to help kitsel about the Rocket King Toad experiment and thanks for the clarification.

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            • #22
              there is no mistake..... except maybe conclusion ...... is a bit off..
              but still .. 0->1 buff .. is more effective than 1-> 2 buffs ^^

              = = =

              oh.. and mainly it was me getting confused when trying to read what you wrote xD ... =.="
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